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Washington Women’s Heritage Project records, 1900-2000 
University of Washington Libraries Special Collections 
Erna Dora Meerscheidt Bouillon 
October 13, 1980 
Cassette 5, Side 1 
 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  00:00 
I guess that's [inaudible]. Okay, Erna Bouillon, interviewed by Susan Ehlers, October 13, 1980, 
for Washington Women's Heritage Project, tape five, side eight. Okay, the Economics, Home 
Economics Department was new-- 
 
Erna Bouillon  00:22 
It was a new department started by Miss Raitt, and pretty soon it was taken up all over the United 
States. She became quite a figure, and she was a funny little woman, so quiet, she never talked 
and never smiled. But she had a mind of own, and she knew what she wanted to accomplish, and 
she did it. I have a newspaper clipping where it said, "Miss Raitt dies," and it mentions that she 
was like a mousy little creature, you know, and she was little and beady eyes and, and was quiet, 
but she had a determination to put these home economic departments all over the United States, 
and she did, and Canada. She was known all over. And then Miss Denny was her assistant for the 
sewing and Miss Raitt taught cooking and dietetics and nutrition, and Miss Denny taught sewing. 
And then we had to go to chemistry classes and it was a very thorough, complete scientific 
course. And Miss Denny gave me a book of hers, autographed, I have it. And I became very 
intimate with both of those teachers, and they invited me to their family parties even, and their 
friends when they had parties for them and all along my senior year and after graduation. They 
were, they were very nice to me. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  02:13 
Denny and Raitt halls are named after them?  
 
Erna Bouillon  02:17 
Yes.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  02:17 
And so far as you know, that, that was pretty much the start of home economics? 
 
Erna Bouillon  02:23 
Oh, it was. But not a, not, it wasn't a maybe, it was absolutely the start of them, it was Miss 
Raitt's idea, and she put them all over the United States.  
 
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Susan Lynn Ehlers  02:36 
Okay, before you got married, did you have any other boyfriends besides the man [?who became 
your husband?]?  
 
Erna Bouillon  02:40 
Well, not so much, because I, I could have had, but see, I went to parties on Mercer Island. There 
was a dance every Saturday night then. We, we weren't allowed to go to parties by the sorority 
on the university except weekends. And weekends I went home to Mercer Island, and he lived on 
Mercer Island, and we, we were so busy, and we transported people over. They'd rent a launch, a 
group of them, and come over to our dances over there. And I went pretty steady with him for 
four years before I married him. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  03:04 
So that's about how long you had known him? 
 
Erna Bouillon  03:05 
Yeah, for, oh, I knew him--  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  03:09 
Even before then?  
 
Erna Bouillon  03:13 
--maybe five, six years, but four years well.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  03:32 
Did you ever feel pressured to be ma-- Get married, or? 
 
Erna Bouillon  03:35 
Beg your pardon?  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  03:36 
Did you feel pressured to get married?  
 
Erna Bouillon  03:38 
Did he feel or I?  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  03:40 
Well-- 
 
Erna Bouillon  03:41 
No, there was no pressure. We just, we decided to get married then, and did it. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  03:46 
I see, did he ask your parents permission before he asked you, or did he ask you fir--  
 
Erna Bouillon  03:52 
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I don't think so, I think he asked me, and they knew it was coming. There was no surprise. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  04:01 
About how long between your marriage and your first pregnancy? 
 
Erna Bouillon  04:06 
I got pregnant right away, I became within nine, nine months. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  04:12 
What was your feeling about when you first found out that you were pregnant?  
 
Erna Bouillon  04:16 
It was fine. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  04:18 
Fine. What was your husband's feelings?  
 
Erna Bouillon  04:20 
It was fine. The doctor said I was going to have, I was, we were living in Tacoma, and the doctor 
said I was going to have it, I think it was five weeks early. And I said, "No, that's not possible. 
I've gone to the library and looked up in a book how long it takes after conception," and I said, 
"After so many days," and I figured them out, and, "She's coming on April the 28th of 1917," 
and he shook his head, no, and I was right. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  05:00 
[?And you?] did arrive pretty much on time? 
 
Erna Bouillon  05:02 
Yeah, and that was exactly the day, you know, that I picked out from that library book. And he, 
he said, "Well, I sure was wrong." Well, in this day and age, you know, people have affairs on 
the outside, and it might have been possible that I was pregnant from another man, by another 
man, but that that just wasn't done in that day and age, and I certainly wouldn't have done it. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  05:36 
Were all your children born at home or in hospitals?  
 
Erna Bouillon  05:38 
Hospital. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  05:39 
They were all born in hosp-- About how long after the birth did you stay in bed? 
 
Erna Bouillon  05:47 
Well, they kept them in bed three weeks. They kept them at the hospital. I don't know that we 
were in bed the whole time, but we, we were kept in the hospital three weeks. That was the 
standard rule. 
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Susan Lynn Ehlers  06:00 
And that was all, were they all delivered by doctors? During your pregnancy, did you stay home? 
Stay indoors? Out of sight?  
 
Erna Bouillon  06:10 
Oh, no, not out of sight. That was, I don't, I didn't stay indoors. I just lived a normal life. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  06:20 
Do you feel you had too many children or too few?  
 
Erna Bouillon  06:22 
No, I lost two. Let's see, I had a miscarriage. I guess I lost one. I had a miscarriage, and that was 
because they came, well, the first two were three years apart, and the next two were three years 
and then the last two were two years apart, so I didn't have them too close. And one was always 
pretty much on the way, you know, three years old before the next one came. And my children 
were very close, very close. And so when that 13 year old boy died, it sort of broke up that, he 
had been the second oldest and three years apart. So, Pat was six years older than the next, it was 
a girl-- It was girl, boy, girl, boy. So she would, and that made a hole there, you know, in that 
close. They'd get together, the four of them, and they were just one little group, and play and 
laugh and talk. And even as they, you know, were in school and everything. Well, that made a 
big break, when he died. And but the girl, who was six years younger than Pat, than the oldest 
girl, had an ability to kind of step in the, in the breach and, and hold the younger one, younger 
boy, and Pat, the older girl. But I found out that I had, that they had to sleep-- They were just the 
closest of friends, Pat and Joe, except when I tried having them sleep together in the same room, 
they fought like cats and dogs, because Pat was neat and Joe was sloppy. She'd throw her coat 
down, throw her books down, and Pat couldn't stand it. So, I took them and I had a conference, 
and I said to them, "Now, we'll have the maid's room, if you people, and I'll move Joe in there, 
then you have your room alone, Pat." And it was like a palace, it was as long as this, I could put 
five single beds in a row, a huge room, "You can have that to yourself, and Joe can have her, the 
maid's room to herself, if you kids will go down and help. It'll throw more work on me, because 
we won't have the cook, I'll only have day help. And you'll have to help me, you'll have to help 
me if that's what you want. I'm leaving it up to you. If you want to sleep together in the same 
room, the maid has to have her room. So that's your choice." And they chose to sleep separately, 
and they helped me. So that was an education for them, because they learned to help in the home, 
which they hadn't really had to do with a maid, and I had a house boy or laundress, and, oh, I 
don't know. It was, it made quite a difference, and it was a good, and they were just at the age 
where they could take responsibility and learn. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  10:07 
The thing is, you mentioned the death of this son, and then you also had the girl that was badly 
injured. What were your feelings about that? Did you feel it was just a cross that you had the 
bear, so to speak, it was a dirty trick by life or what? 
 
Erna Bouillon  10:24 
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No, I didn't feel it was a dirty trick. I felt sorry for my mother in law, that that happened to her, 
and felt sorry for my husband, because he carried the guilt about that, his, that was his mother's 
fault. And it wasn't her fault, she couldn't help it that, that her heart stopped, no, I went right out 
to see her where she lived. Later on, she did die with her heart finally. And I never, I never felt 
any resentment or anything. No, absolutely not. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  11:12 
Did you feel that that made you more religious because of those kinds of, kinds of experiences? 
 
Erna Bouillon  11:19 
Well, I don't know what to say to that. I'd had quite a bit of, I'd had quite a bit of religion in 
Germany, from this great aunt, and I went to Sunday school until I was 18 years old. I was 
baptized and confirmed in the Episcopal Church, and I just took religion as something you had to 
put into your life. You, you, you had to use it. I mean, I didn't sit down read my Bible every day, 
I wasn't religious that way. People wouldn't call me a very religious person. But I believe in 
putting the, the best into your life, and I got that out of religion. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  12:21 
Okay, do you feel your-- Oh, yes, you mentioned that you sort of had a brush with death, that 
your doctor had told the kids, your kids, that you only had two hours left to live-- 
 
Erna Bouillon  12:35 
Oh, that was in, that was here, here at the health center. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  12:41 
Did that bring you-- Could you explain a little bit more about what had brought you to a such a 
point? I mean, what sort of illness you had? And then--  
 
Erna Bouillon  12:48 
I had seven operations. I had a breast, a tumor, not, not cancer, but an abscess or tumor, I don't 
know what they called it, right here. I've got a, kind of a, scar there, and that was the first. Then, 
let's see, had all these operations, I've written them down, but I know that the very last one was a 
rectum operation. And one, first it started with a track up here, and they didn't want to leave a 
scar here, and they were going to have to go in here for some kind of an operation, and they 
removed my appendix, and they went up like this, and operated inside and operated on my track 
here. There's no scar any place, and they wanted to avoid a scar, which was wonderful. I don't 
know how they do some of these things. They took my appendix out and they took my gall 
stones out, not my gall bladder, and this rectum operation. I even, I still get a call from, a card, 
from him once a year, "It's time for you to come to have your yearly examination." And I 
remember the last time, one time he put me in the hospital and paid for all-- That was about five 
years ago, all my hospital expenses, except I paid for the radio and some of the [?luxury?] like 
that, you know. But he paid for all my expenses because he, for a week, because he wanted to 
make sure I didn't have cancer. And this last examination wasn't in the hospital, but he examined 
me in his office, and he has a partner, and he came out of there he said, "She hasn't got cancer! 
She hasn't got cancer!" And he was all dancing. He's a funny li-- Not so little, but he was just like 
this, he was dancing because he said, you'd be surprised how many people get cancer, from that 
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operation I performed. See, my appendix were hanging out that much, four or five inches, and 
usually they just chop it off. Well, I'd had so many operations, they operate, took out a rib here to 
extract the pus, because all these operations were creating pus in my body and, but let's see about 
this. Oh, and, but he said, "You've had too many operations. I can't chop that intestine off. You 
will die of shock. I'll take it and I'll tie it up." And he bent it back and tied it. And that's still in 
my, my intestine is still up there, tied up. And you know, that's why I drink-- I have little, those 
medicine vials. When you get some medicine in a little glass vial, screw top. And three times a 
day, I drink this apricot nectar. It's not juice, it's nectar, it's a little thicker than juice. I drink it 
here, breakfast and lunch, I take it down and, I've got a white purse, and I wrap a napkin around 
it so if any moisture happens to leak out, which it doesn't really, but I take that down for my 
dinner. I drink, I have that three times a day to help the passage of food. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  16:53 
Did you feel that brush with death made you any more religious?  
 
Erna Bouillon  16:57 
No, not any more religious than-- I am trying to live a good life. I am trying to do the best by all 
my children and myself. I try to be considerate and not selfish and that, to me, is religion. I'm not 
one of these people who, well, we have some here that I'd say, really, what you'd call religious 
people. And some of them, oh, they say, "You can't go to heaven unless you're born again," and, 
oh, all these theories they have. And they have sort of unusual religion. I don't know I, I think 
religion, I think God or Jesus would want you to live the best life you can and, in consideration 
of other people as well as yourself, that's religion to me.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  18:03 
Oh and, back to the health thing. Now, [?and this will do with your mother?], but you said she 
had both breasts removed, do you know what that was about?  
 
Erna Bouillon  18:16 
Oh, my father took her to Germany and had it done over there, and she succeeded. I mean, they 
were successful.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  18:23 
It was cancer?  
 
Erna Bouillon  18:24 
It was cancer. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  18:25 
When she was fairly young? 
 
Erna Bouillon  18:27 
Well, yes, because after that, you see, in those days, they nursed their babies. After that, she 
always had a midwife brought from Switzerland, brought to this country for us. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  18:43 
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Do you know what her reactions to that were? And you know what your reactions were?  
 
Erna Bouillon  18:48 
Oh, I was too young to know about it, much about it. My sister had cancer-- Two sisters had 
cancer, and they both recovered. They didn't die of cancer, of the breast. They both died, finally, 
with their hearts. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:10 
I see. And all that you had was an abscess or a cyst?  
 
Erna Bouillon  19:14 
Yes, yes, an abscess, I think, and that was the first operation. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:21 
About the time you were growing up is when women were, they were maybe still, some were 
wearing corsets, but then they gave them up. Did you ever wear one? 
 
Erna Bouillon  19:37 
Oh, yes. I always wore a corset. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:39 
Do you remember about when you stopped wearing them?  
 
Erna Bouillon  19:39 
Oh, I don't know, the [?fad changed?], we were, started wearing girdles, you know, and they 
were soft, no stays. Well, I always pulled half of the stays out of my corsets.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  19:49 
It felt too tight?  
 
Erna Bouillon  19:50 
Well, I just didn't like them, I'd pull them out. I'd cut a little slit at the bottom, pull that stay out, 
I've still got some of the stays, and sew that little place, whip it up again. It was on the inside. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  20:08 
Do you have any, remember any of your reactions to the roaring '20s or the depression? You 
know, many things that you remember about when radio or [?color to movies?] first came in? 
 
Erna Bouillon  20:21 
As far as the depression goes, I didn't feel it. My, personally, I felt it in my friends, yes, but 
personally, my husband, during the Depression, was making 1,000 dollars a month because he 
was manager of, I'm not sure whether he was at Mannings and off to the Ford Motor Company, 
whichever it was, he made 1,000 dollars a month. Now, I had one friend, and she came from a 
wealthy family too, and she, she was so poor, her husband was an importer, he'd been importing 
things. Well, that whole business stopped, they had 40 dollars a month to live on, and she went 
all to pieces. I can remember going to see her, and she was lying in bed and her eyes just, lids 
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going like this, you know, from undernourishment and nervousness and, and she, she'd hardly eat 
because she didn't think they could pay for the food. And she was, they were very poor. Now, I 
had other friends, and they weren't in that situation, but none of them were flush as we were. And 
so I didn't, I felt it in my friends, but I personally didn't have to go through it.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  21:55 
Oh, I see. Oh, do you remember anything about the AYP fair? You said it was on, when you first 
came?  
 
Erna Bouillon  22:02 
When, when we came.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  22:03 
The Alaska Yukon Pacific-- 
 
Erna Bouillon  22:05 
Yeah, we went to that, and we went all through it. And I enjoyed it, because I'd never seen a 
ferris wheel or any of those fun things, you know, that was all new to me. And we just had a 
wonderful time. And my father took us through all the art, they had art galleries and all kinds of 
things out there, you know, everything. And it was a beautiful fair. [Telephone rings] Oh. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  22:34 
[Tape stops and starts]-- Takes care of your finances?  
 
Erna Bouillon  22:37 
Well, only in checking over my account book. I write everything down, when I draw money and-
- 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  22:45 
I see, about the AYP, anything else that you wanted to add about that? That particularly stands 
out in your mind?  
 
Erna Bouillon  22:53 
That was a wonderful, wonderful fair, very successful, and got you interested in Alaska, you 
know, and the Yukon. I don't, I don't know. Well, we went several times, and we, we'd eat a meal 
out there and spend the whole day, my father and mother took us. We had a wonderful time. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  23:30 
Did they have a street car that went out there, or what, you don't remember how you-- 
 
Erna Bouillon  23:34 
Yeah, they had a street car. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  23:39 
Oh, going back to even younger days, do you remember any sort of particular games or sports or 
recreation you engaged in as a girl? 
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Erna Bouillon  23:48 
Real young? No. But when I was, when I lived on Mercer Island, we had our own tennis court 
connected with the estate we had, and that court was filled all the time. My friends on the island 
simply came up and played, if I wasn't at home, they just used the court. But if I was at home, 
then I entered into it. And we swam, I could swim across the narrowest plate, narrowest body, to 
the nearest piece of land across, at the north end of Mercer Island, I could swim across that. And 
I, we tobogganed in the wintertime, and would organize a group to go tobogganing down a hill at 
the north end of the island. Then I'd bring them home, and my mother would have hot chocolate 
and some cookies for us. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  24:52 
Who taught you to swim, do you remember?  
 
Erna Bouillon  24:54 
I taught, just taught myself I think. I don't, I don't know, just the, the other kids that had been 
living over there longer than I. When I went to college, I played hockey, stick, you know, 
hockey, with, on roller skates and, and was on the team. And I got my honors in athletics because 
I could swim so well and, and played tennis and hockey and basketball. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  25:42 
Oh, what sort of dress did you wear for basketball? 
 
Erna Bouillon  25:48 
We wore bloomers, I remember that, and I suppose blouses. Some kind of a costume, it had to all 
look alike on the field, we all had the same. We left them in the athletic hall there and had a 
certain place to keep them. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  26:09 
Okay, well, did you have any quarrels with your children over their choice of friends and/or 
careers or anything like that to your own kids?  
 
Erna Bouillon  26:18 
No, I don't think so. They brought very nice friends home, and they all made friends easily. I had 
no, they had no trouble with their friends that I can remember. They still, now, this one daughter 
that lives on Bainbridge went this last Sunday to visit some friends, they were two sisters, and 
another friend went from here, went with my daughter. And they went down on the bus and 
stayed all day and came back on the bus at night. But those two friends, her friend, the one, the 
oldest one of the two girls, had a beautiful home, my daughter said, just a gorgeous home. And 
when they were girls, this man, their father, was a widow, and he told, he proposed to me 
through his daughter and my children.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  27:36 
What? 
 
Erna Bouillon  27:37 
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And I turned him down the same way, because my heavens, I told my kids, I don't know the 
man, not interested in him anyway. But he was a very nice man and very good to these children. 
He was being a mother, but I think he wanted to marry me so they'd really have a mother and he 
could only be the father. And I turned him down. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  28:06 
Did you have anybody in particular that you turned to for help when there was a problem with 
the your family, like when your kids got hurt, or something like that, would you turn to your 
[inaudible]? 
 
Erna Bouillon  28:17 
Oh, my mother always came up, my father, my father came out weekends, but my mother came 
out and stayed and helped me for a whole month when Pat was hurt and came home from the 
hospital-- Oh, before she went to the hospital, and then she went to the hospital. And my mother 
came when I had babies, even though I had a practical nurse at home [inaudible]. I'd get home 
from the hospital, so, and I always had a maid. And, now, what else did you ask me?  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  28:57 
I was just saying to whom did you turn for help in times of trouble when you were married? And 
so will it be primarily your mother? 
 
Erna Bouillon  29:06 
I was pretty independent. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  29:11 
No friends or anybody?  
 
Erna Bouillon  29:13 
Oh, I never talked my inside situation with friends. I didn't do that. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  29:24 
Okay, well, [inaudible] I've got left is sexuality. Now, do you want to talk about how you learned 
about sex and sexuality, or anything like that?  
 
Erna Bouillon  29:34 
Well, certainly no one talked to me before I got married, and I, I just, probably from what I'd 
read. I, I don't think you have to be talked to, necessarily, if, if you're normal, and your husband 
is normal in his relationship. And that's all I remember about that, it's all long ago. 
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  30:08 
Okay, well, that's about all the questions I've got here. Anything else that you would care to add?  
 
Erna Bouillon  30:14 
No.  
 
Susan Lynn Ehlers  30:15 
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Okay, well, once again, thank you very much [?for your time?]. 
 